Topic: Mind and Consciousness

Camp: Agreement / Not Supernatural / Representational and Real

Camp Statement
Go live Time :

Consciousness is Representational and Real

By representational, we mean perception is a representational process with qualia being the final result of the cause and effect perception process. There are no phenomenal properties, that we know of, beyond our abstracting cause and effect based senses, but such phenomenology most definitely does exist in our mind.
By real, we mean that qualia are real and that the phenomenal nature of consciousness, or what it is phenomenally like, is the most critical part of what it means to be conscious.
In his book: "Consciousness Explained" Daniel Dennett claims we don't experience qualia "It just seems like we do." (P 375). But the very meaning of 'to seem' is to have knowledge that doesn't accurately represent its referent, making this an obvious logical error; for we are only talking about actual phenomenal qualities, which really has nothing to do with whether such phenomenal qualities are misrepresenting something or not.
We believe the visual perception process to be constituted of a chain of 'cause and effect' real events. The initial event in this chain is the reflection of photons by the surface of a physical object. Intermediate events are those in the retina, optic nerve, optic thalamus, optic radiations and a number of stages in the visual cortex. The final result of the perceptual process is the appearance of a visual sensation in the phenomenal visual field (A). This is associated with the acquisition of cognitive knowledge relating to the external physical object (B).
Processes A and B are mediated by different brain mechanisms. In associative agnosia the patient has intact phenomenology but defective epistemology about visual objects. In blindsight the opposite occurs—no phenomenology but functioning epistemology. Visual phenomenology(A) and visual epistemology(B) are processed by different brain mechanisms and correspondingly lost by damage to these regions.
The word 'red' can be used in its common sense mode as naming a causal property of an external object that reflects 700 nm light such as a common strawberry. But this usage can be misleading or misdirect us from the true location of the important sensation involved and its true phenomenal nature. It is theoretically possible to add an inverter to the optical nerve causing the abstracted red and green signal contained therein to be inverted. This would result in the still reflecting 700 nm light strawberry being represented with phenomenal green, and the leaves to be represented with phenomenal red in the visual field of such a person after such an inverter was activated. Dreams, hallucinated strawberries, after-images, and other things in our visual field can also be composed of phenomenal red.

The fact that a strawberry causes 700 nm light to reflect in a certain pattern has nothing to do with a phenomenal quality red other than our brain happens to use phenomenal red to represent it. This is absolutely proven by the fact that we can represent the same thing with an inverted 'green' phenomenal sensation. True phenomenal 'red', like all phenomenal properties, are the final result of the perception process. There is no phenomenal color, taste, warmth, sound, or pain, beyond our senses. There is only the causal behavior of reflected electromagnetic radiation of a certain wavelength, chemical content, kinetic energy motion of molecules, acoustical vibrations, bodily damage or other cause and effect behavioral properties which our brain uses phenomenology to represent.
We think the red strawberry amongst the green leaves we are aware of is out beyond our eyes, and that we are directly aware of it. But this is a misrepresentation. In reality, these sensations are entirely after the perception process, in a conscious spirit world* model of the reality we perceive. Phenomenal properties are not properties of what initiates the perception process, they are properties of the final result of the perception process.
At the center of this phenomenal 3D world modeling reality beyond our senses is our experience of the body-image. This is the model of the physical body that we experience and that is also constructed by a representative mechanism. All somatic sensations, including 'phantom' limbs and phantom limb pain, are located in the body image not in the physical body.
Inside our experience of our body-image is an experience of our "self" or "spirit" or "I". This "I" is represented as looking out of our experience of our eyes within this body image. But of course, this spirit image, unlike most everything else in this phenomenal world, has no referent in reality. However, though it has no referent in reality, this in no way means it does not exist. This phenomenal "spirit" is what we really and literally spiritually are. During "out of body experiences" this image of our spirit* leaves our body-image, all in the phenomenal world of our conscious awareness, all dependent on our brain.
We know the difference between the green leaf and the red strawberry, precisely because of the phenomenal difference between red and green sensations. When there is a red strawberry represented in the left hemisphere (right field of vision) and a green leaf represented in the right hemisphere (left field of vision) we are aware of all this together in a unified phenomenal world. Something, possibly in some way via the corpus callosum, unifies these parts of fields of vision into one conscious whole where we can compare and contrast their conscious differences.
If this theory is true, it will be possible to use similar mechanisms to produce artificial hemisphere like structures integrated into our visual fields that can reliably reproduce various phenomenal sensations upon command within one single phenomenal world of awareness with the red, green, and everything else we are already phenomenally aware of. With such an enhanced mind, we should be able to throw a switch and say something like: 'This is what my red is like'. To which the augmented person may say - "Yes, that is the same as red for me." Or, we might be surprised to find that she represents 700 nm light with something dramatically different. We refer to such a phenomenal communication ability as 'effing' the ineffable.
Various brain interface experiments are increasingly getting close to 'effing' abilities. Just one demonstration of such is documented in this wired article. If we should achieve even a remote and rare but reliable ability to 'eff' the ineffable as predicted by this theory via any such methods this will demonstrably prove this theory to be THE ONE. It will also falsify all theories that claim qualia do not exist or that there is no 'hard problem', or any theories that claim we have been aware of phenomenal properties beyond (or causally upstream from) our senses.
We believe that with such abilities to understand and eff the ineffable, the only remaining requirements for full understanding of the brain will be 'easy problems' of complexity and information theory. In other words, nothing else beyond effing understanding and sufficient complexity and engineering theory will be required to fully read, understand and artificially reproduce conscious minds in their entirety.
We believe it is absurd to think the only way to determine the nature of another consciousness is only through a "Turing Test". To phenomenally know the nature of such, the most important question to ask a something like: "What is Red like?" And to know if the conscious entity is telling the truth, you must know something about whatever it is in the mind that reliably produces these sensations, have the ability to at least causally observe such neural correlates and have something like 'effing' abilities to ground these abstracted cause and effect representations. In other words, you must really know what it is phenomenally like.
There are myriads of theories about just what and how these phenomenal sensations in our visual field are and how they are unified into our phenomenal world of awareness. See the various sub camps to this representational camp for descriptions of these various competing theories.
In a way our skulls are phenomenal prison walls. There are unified, grand and glorious phenomenal spirit* worlds within each of ours, and our spirits exist within these phenomenally lonely worlds. Our cause and effect based senses and their extension via traditional scientific instruments and communication tools allow abstracted communication between these worlds, and about the behavior of the world in general. But, beyond this abstracted information, we are still phenomenal isolated and blind to any phenomenal properties beyond what is in our own world of conscious awareness. When we hug someone, we only know half of what is important.
We believe science is on the verge of getting an objective handle on these blind to traditional cause and effect observation phenomenal properties that will soon enables technologies such as 'effing' the ineffable. This discovery will finally resolve how they work and many other conundrums of self and epistemology philosophy has been struggling with for so long. We believe such a discovery will be the most significant, profound and world changing of scientific achievements to date. For such an achievement will literally ultimately enable the piercing of these spirit prison walls and eventually allow our spirits to be freed into a world that is surely much more than just cause and effect behavior. If this theory turns out to be true our spirit* worlds, in addition to being shared and merged, will soon be growing in resolution, extents, diversity of phenomenal qualities, and many way's we surely can't even fathom yet, let alone know what it will be like.

More Info:
  • There is a canonized list of publications on the issue of representationalism here.
  • This theory makes profound predictions about what things like uploading and "escaping from our mortal spirit* prison" will be like, should it turn out to be true. A detailed description of such predictions in story form is contained in chapters 5 and 6 of the short story by Brent Allsop entitled "1229 years after Titanic" available here:

* Note:
It isn't easy to describe what we are talking about here with common English. Terms like 'phenomenal' and 'spiritual' get close, but can also be misleading because these terms are so often used to mean other things than what we are talking about here. Though this 'world in our head' has many similarities to what people commonly think of when they use the term 'spirit world' it should be very clear that what we are talking about here is completely contained in our skull, and is dependent on, or a property of the living matter that makes up our brain. We do believe in 'spirits' as defined here, but we do not believe in ghosts.

Support Tree for "Representational and Real" Camp

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Current Topic Record

Topic Name : Mind and Consciousness
Namespace : /General/

Current Camp Record

Camp Name : Representational and Real
Parent Camp : Not Supernatural
Keywords : real, representational, brain
Camp About URL :
Camp About Nick Name : No nickname associated
Disable additional sub camps : No
Single level camps only : No