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Camp Statement

Go live Time : 10 August 2008, 07:41 AM

We believe there is no objective, reliable, or sufficiently credible evidence to support a belief in any kind of a spirit world.

In addition to lack of rational support or credible evidence, just the idea of any type of 'spirit world' or 'veil' seems completely hellish to us in the most frighteningly possible ways.

Some people describe this world being separated from such neither worlds via some sort of veil. Often times this veil is described as 'thin'. Some claim the beings on the other side of this veil are 'knocking' or quietly 'whispering' in an attempt to communicate to us through this veil, if we would only properly listen / do what is right. Rather than question their belief in such, people often instead tend to quickly judge others that do not so communicate as some how inadequate, or just not doing what is right to achieve such communication.

When we here various descriptions of spirit worlds we ask questions like what happens in such spirit worlds before, during and after events like 9/11? Would there be hundreds of ghosts of dead relatives of the terrorists whispering, and knocking, as they watched their children make the decisions, take the actions, that would likely, and eventually does really lead to such? Do you think any of these ghosts would ever want to do more than 'whisper'? Maybe they just give up at some point? Perhaps you think the terrorists were simply evil or inadequate because they just didn't do what is right to be able to receive such communications?

Apparently, in many beliefs about the spirit world, the bad ones are some how taken to another place and not allowed to remain with the innocent ones. Such 'revenge' for such acts, and such forced (eternal?) isolation, may give some people comfort, but it gives us no comfort.

There are lots of diverse and contradictory descriptions of spirit worlds in various interpretations of various popular books of 'scripture'. There are much more descriptive accounts of such in first hand descriptions of 'near death experiences' where people experience having ventured through such a veil or died, and returned.

We are of course not surprised that usually these descriptions happen to line up very closely with the particular set of interpretations of such scriptures, or views of the world people believe in before they have such experiences.

We do believe that such 'out of body' experience are possible, and indeed do happen, but we believe such is perfectly understandable via rational scientific explanations and understandings of how a representational mind works; an example being that which is described in this well supported camp on the hard problem of consciousness.


Every argument attempting to justify such a hellishly isolating veil we have heard, just seems completely absurd and futile to us. All of the descriptions of such, and what happens there before, during, and after death, also seem obviously very abhorrent to us. Many people seem to enjoy and appreciate the many varied interpretations and descriptions of spirits and spirit worlds, but we think anyone that gets such a 'warm feeling' from such is morally blind of what should be obvious, terrible and fearful about all such.

Anyone that claims to have 'faith' that such a spirit world exists, seems obviously simply mistaken to us. For accepting that such a 'veil' is truly necessary, especially for very powerful or God like beings, is giving up true faith and hope and accepting something very terrible in despair. Some of us have much more faith and hope than this and look forward to a time in the near future when no such isolating 'veils' are ever required again, for any beings and that this will be long before there are anything like Gods.

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