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Camp Statement

Go live Time : 08 August 2022, 10:13 PM

Unconditional Collaboration

The Unethical Collaboration camp seems to espouse not collaborating with anyone they judge to be unethical. To us, this seems antisocial. We value unconditional love for all. If we have a loved one, suffering in hell, likely due to their actions, we will descend down to that hell, and remain with them, serving them, seeking to see things from their POV, humbly trying and collaborating with their ways as an experiment, and so on, for as long as is necessary to rescue them from that hell. We will never give up.

Many christian belief systems take a hateful hellfire and damnation approach, and preach that one should never affiliate with “devils” or people in “hell”. Many of them are explicitly hierarchical, information and judgements always only flowing top down from the leader, who is assumed to be in direct contact with God. Truth and values are determined via edict, and if there is obvious evidence of issues with such edicts, an attitude of God’s (assumed to be superior) ways are not Man’s (assumed to be inferior) ways is taken. In other words such edicts are not falsifiable, and are simply true and good, by definition from the guy at the top of the hierarchy.

The beginning of the Mormon tradition rebelled against this kind of top down thinking. A poor farm boy, rather than adhering to existing hierarchies, sought inspiration from God, on his own. In other words, he worked in a bottom up way, rather than top down. The information he received basically falsified the edicts which were supposedly coming down from on high, through established hierarchies. To us, this is a good example of the buttom up and win/win type values we espouse.

Some members of some Mormon communities have drifted away from this bottom up, falsifiable aprach, and have regressed back to a hierarchical nature. While there is clearly a large number of LDS which today, espouse top down, not all of them do. We reject these hierarchical tendencies (for us, they have been falsified), and instead focus on the doctrine of the church such as the 11th article of faith, which declares bottom up things like: “Let them worship how, where, and what they may.” We seek to push the organization in this more unconditionally loving direction.

The fictional story based on actual events in the “UC Scenario 201201” camp presents a series of facts. Then proceeds to judge this subset of the actual facts to be unethical, and believes there to be “outright lies” being told. Rather than judging this particular subset to be “unethical” behavior containing “lies”, we believe it is possible to interpret the same set of facts, filled in with some additional facts and context, along the lines of the values and differing beliefs described above, and believe it to be a very real possibility that these same subset of facts could be about some very ethical people doing very good things, that there is nothing hidden (like names being changed to hide things), nor anything we would consider to be lies, in anything they do.

We think it is very telling that you see large and spacious church buildings spread throughout society, with large congregations anxiously involved in significant work. We see no atheist buildings. Some atheist organizations seem completely unable to organize in any significant way to accomplish anything of any significance. Do these groups have any other purpose than to cherry pick sets of facts about successful organizations they then judge to be unethical, then continue to do all they can to frustrate and refuse to affiliate with them? Then continuing this judgemental fracturing till there is nothing left of any significant size.

There was a World Transhumanist Organization described in the story which was judged to be “taken over” by a Mormon Transhumanist organization. Another interpretation of the facts might be that there were only some individuals in the world transhumanist organization who still espoused this same kind of exclusive, refuse to affiliate behaviors, as seems to be valued by the supporters of the “unethical collaboration” camp. One might assume that there were others, already in the organization, who valued a more social approach. Some might see a well organized group of people, rather than refusing to affiliate with the world transhumanist organization, instead sought to join and help them see that there is a better way than being antisocial in a bottom up way. The MTA members; doing things like successfully educating and lobbying the organization to pick less antisocial leaders, so the organization may be more social, then growing in size, rather than being antisocial and shrinking. Thereby replicating the experimental results of exponential growth achieved in the Mormon Transhumanist organization into the formally struggling world transhumanist organization.

“Taken over” is a hierarchical label for when one leader “takes over” another leader in the hierarchy, everyone below being forced to comply. If, instead, people join an organization, doing far more than any current members to push forward transhumanists beliefs and actions, that is a different story. And that isn’t too hard, if you’ve ever been involved in Transhumanist types of organizations who are mostly Atheists. In our experience, they do little, if anything, to help whatever movement they are part of. Unlike many Mormon Transhumanists who will give their life to such.

Then when they proceed to, through example, convert the members of the organization to a better way, this is the organization, progressing and then voting for a better way. There is no “taking over” going on. There are surely still some people in the World Transhumanist Organization (and probably some in the Mormon Transhumanist organization as well) who still value excommunication, and so on. Unlike exclusive organizations who might excommunicate such members, they are still accepted and valued in the continually growing organization. We value “diversity” more than “purity” of beliefs. The same is done here on Canonizer. Different points of view are welcomed, as we openly welcome competing camps like the Unethical Collaboration Scenario 201201 camp. Nobody is “taken over.” People are simply shown a better way, via example. Nobody is compelled to be in, or vote for, a camp they don’t want to be in, till they are good and ready.

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