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Camp Statement

Go live Time : 29 March 2009, 08:19 PM
When we listen to people talking about NDEs at forums like IANDS, and read stories like that of 'The message' by Lance Richardson to say that we are shocked and horrified at all such would be an understatement. It is much more of a visceral and real sickness that fills our gut and all of our being with the horror that we see just beneath the surface, and the logical implications of all these warm and fuzzies being described that so many people seem to be happy and excited about promoting as supposedly being good. Similar to the way such people recounting such seem shocked that we don't believe such are any more than dreams, we are shocked that they can't see the horror we see in the hellish logical implications of what they are describing.

All we can think about as we listen to such and we try to imagining what it must be like being such Ghosts in such neither worlds, is being isolated from and looking back on everyone else still stuck in reality and all the things they are still doing. We imagine the horrors of something like what would all the spirits do after something like 9/11 and all the other every day events? We have the same reaction when watching horror ghost movies like "Ghost" or "The Sixth Sense". We certainly wouldn't be filled with happiness if the terrorist pilots (we love everyone) were then sucked out of the picture evidently being dragged down to some kind of dark isolated hell away from us and so on as is portrayed in the horror movie Ghost. And we haven't ever seen any other description of any such that is less repulsive and horrifying.

Just the thought that there might really be Ghosts and isolated neither worlds as portrayed in any of this just horrifies us.

Also, there are critical impossible flaws in all such descriptions of 'Ghosts' which prove to us the impossibility of any such accounts being any more than fantasized dreams taking place in the 'spirit worlds' of one's brain.

We are in the Consciousness is representational and real camp. This camp points out how it is impossible for any sentient being (including so called 'Ghost' Gods ETs, angels, spirits or whatever) to consciously perceive anything without that sentient being having a subset of them that is their knowledge of what is being perceived.

It is claimed that Ghosts can arise from the body when it dies. That such 'floats' up in the room, and is 'aware' of events transpiring there. But all such is impossible as described. Such accounts must specify how such 'awareness' occurs, and the accounts must point out what and where the knowledge of such vs. the real thing is. And how is the knowledge of such updated by the real thing? It's obviously not through cause and effect. But if not, then how is such achieved?

If someone had an out of body experience where such perception and awareness is distinguished and explained in a rationally possible way, as is done in the description of the transfiguration events described in the 5th and 6th chapter of the fictional short story 1229 Years After Titanic, then we might be compelled to be more likely to accept such as possibly true. But from all accounts we've seen, they are simply impossibly self contradicting, proving that the accounts can't be real.

We believe that all claims of some kind new 'knowledge' being revealed from such descriptions, such as people having knowledge of events occurring far from their physical bodies, or when their bodies were 'flat lined' to have other rational explanations. We haven't seen any claims of descriptions of such that aren't completely silly and easily believable to be something other than what is claimed.

As is accepted by the early scientific consensus on theories of consciousness, we believe that we do have spirits that are our knowledge of ourselves. That unlike our knowledge of our bodies and the world around us, these spirits don't have a referent in reality. We believe this completely explains and predicts all such beliefs and experiences relating to such.

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