Topic: Mind Experts

Camp: Agreement / John Gregg

Camp Statement History

Objected
Live
In Review
Old
Statement :

John Gregg

John Gregg has a bachelors degree in computer science and is the author of the book Ones and Zeros. He has had a life long interest in AI and the study of the mind. He started out as an "undergraduate atheist computer programmer... a die-hard reductive physicalist." He tends to be in the same camp on many issues with experts such as Marvin Minsky, Daniel Dennett and others. However, when it comes to the nature of the mind, especially regarding the Hard Problem he has recognized and converted to the camp that there is something more to consciousness than most of these experts claim.

He is the maintainer of the very educational John Gregg's Consciousness Site containing multiple excellent essays on various issues about consciousness. This site is proof of his commanding understanding of the important issues surrounding consciousness. He is currently in the Nature has ineffable phenomenal properties camp on theories of consciousness.

Edit summary : Recycle this statement for John Gregg.
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement : Name changed to "Created Consciousness Vs. the Consciousness of 'the Fall'


Edit summary : Change of camp name
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : (An alternate title for this camp would be "Created vs. the 'Fallen' Consciousness)

Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any complete description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agrees" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" words (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see", inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, in the "'thought' experiments (really "visualization" experiments) of relativity theory and quantum physics, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker', which is described in "thought" words, and the experience of the 'unconscious', which is described in "picture" words, can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', must be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God' (which is, in fact, a 2-dimensional 'flat' space consciousness, as differentiated from the 3-dimensional 'curved' space consciousness originating in self-reflection); the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and restricted 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the new 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' posed by David Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which explains the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the determined unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, thus, the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection and thought in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/

A 'thought experiment' can easily be devised to demonstrate these three dimensions of consciousness:
If a person on a train which is moving in a straight line drops a ball, he or she has information about the motion of the ball only along the y axis; whereas an observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the x axis; that is, in relation to the ground. And, if the train is going around a curve, the observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the z axis.
The person on the train can be likened to a 'thinker'; while the observer in the train station can be likened to the "observing consciousness".
The person in the train station has information about, for example, "feelings" (the x axis) as well as the 'movement' of self-reflection and the "observing consciousness" itself (z axis) which is simply not accessible to the 'thinker' on the train.


Edit summary : Subsequent Revision
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any *complete* description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.*
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agrees" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" words (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see", inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, in the "'thought' experiments (really "visualization" experiments) of relativity theory and quantum physics, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker' --which constitutes the masculine perspective on reality, and which is described in "thought" words; and the experience of the 'unconscious'--which constitutes the feminine perspective on reality and which is described in "picture" words; can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, all attempts to formulate a science of consciousness based upon thought (to the effective exclusion, however, of any serious consideration of either the emotions, the 'unconscious', and the feminine perspective on reality), and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', *must* be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'; the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and *restricted* 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the exclusively masculine perspective of the fundamental metaphysical duality, thought and the assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, instead, establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes the feminine perspective through the inclusion of the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the *new* 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' (masculine perspective) posed by David Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which explains the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the *determined* unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the reality of the feminine perspective, and the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, on that basis, acknowledge the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection, thought , and an exclusively masculine perspective on reality in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/
  • A 'thought experiment' can easily be devised to demonstrate these three dimensions of consciousness:
If a person on a train which is moving in a straight line drops a ball, he or she has information about the motion of the ball only along the y axis; whereas an observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the x axis; that is, in relation to the ground. And, if the train is going around a curve, the observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the z axis.
The person on the train can be likened to a 'thinker'; while the observer in the train station can be likened to the "observing consciousness".
The person in the train station has information about "feelings" (the x axis) as well as the 'movement' of self-reflection and the "observing consciousness" itself (z axis) which is simply not accessible to the 'thinker' on the train.


Edit summary : Revison
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any *complete* description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.*
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agrees" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" words (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see", inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, in the "'thought' experiments (really "visualization" experiments) of relativity theory and quantum physics, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker', which is described in "thought" words, and the experience of the 'unconscious', which is described in "picture" words, can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', *must* be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'; the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and *restricted* 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the *new* 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' posed by David Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which explains the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the *determined* unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, thus, the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection and thought in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/
  • A 'thought experiment' can easily be devised to demonstrate these three dimensions of consciousness:
If a person on a train which is moving in a straight line drops a ball, he or she has information about the motion of the ball only along the y axis; whereas an observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the x axis; that is, in relation to the ground. And, if the train is going around a curve, the observer in the train station also has information about the motion of the ball along the z axis.
The person on the train can be likened to a 'thinker'; while the observer in the train station can be likened to the "observing consciousness".
The person in the train station has information about "feelings" (the x axis) as well as the 'movement' of self-reflection and the "observing consciousness" itself (z axis) which is simply not accessible to the 'thinker' on the train.


Edit summary : Additional revision
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any *complete* description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.*
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agrees" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" words (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see", inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, in the "'thought' experiments (really "visualization" experiments) of relativity theory and quantum physics, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker', which is described in "thought" words, and the experience of the 'unconscious', which is described in "picture" words, can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', *must* be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'; the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and *restricted* 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the *new* 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' posed by David Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which explains the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the *determined* unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, thus, the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection and thought in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/
  • A 'thought experiment' can easily be devised to demonstrate these three dimensions of consciousness:
If a person on a train moving in a straight line drops a ball, he or she has information about the motion of the ball along only the y axis; whereas an observer in the train station has information along the x axis; that is, with regards to the movement of the ball in relation to the ground. And, if the train is going around a curve, the observer in the train station has information about the motion of the ball along the y axis, the x axis, and the z axis.
The person on the train can be likened to a 'thinker'; while the observer in the train station can be likened to the "observing consciousness".
The "observing consciousness" has information about "feelings" (the x axis) as well as the 'movement' of self-reflection and the "observing consciousness" itself (z axis) which is simply not accessible to the 'thinker' on the train.


Edit summary : Revision of the Original
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any *complete* description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agrees" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" words (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see", inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, in the "'thought' experiments (really "visualization" experiments) of relativity theory and quantum physics, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker', which is described in "thought" words, and the experience of the 'unconscious', which is described in "picture" words, can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', *must* be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'; the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and *restricted* 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the *new* 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' posed by David Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which explains the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the *determined* unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, thus, the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection and thought in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/


Edit summary : Revision of the Original
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
In other words, the fundamental assumption of Western philosophy, the scientific method, Western theology, and those who are attempting to develop, specifically, a science of consciousness is that there is, in fact, only one dimension of consciousness worthy of consideration; and that that consciousness can, itself, be described necessarily and completely from within its own frame of reference, which is thought (for example, cognitive philosophy, bio-chemistry, neurology, theology, etc).
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, ("I feel as though I have all of a sudden fallen into deep water. I can no longer plant my foot on the bottom or swim on the surface.") there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a second dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'; something which emerges with the collapse of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.
But these words describing the immediate experiences of Descartes not only affirm the existence of a second dimension of consciousness--that is, the 'unconscious'. The very existence of these words, in and of themselves, demonstrates the existence of a third dimension of consciousness capable of describing the immediate experience of that 'unconscious'. And that consciousness is the "observing consciousness".
Thus, any *complete* description of human consciousness must include and address not only the consciousness of the 'thinker'-- which is the proper concern of, specifically, a science of consciousness (within and upon which the vast majority of the scientists of consciousness are currently focusing)--but, also, descriptions of both the 'unconscious' and the "observing consciousness" from the frame of reference not of thought or the consciousness of the 'thinker', but the "observing consciousness" itself.
A principal difference between the descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" which the experience of the 'unconscious' is conveyed (as above, by Descartes) occurs at the level of language itself; descriptions of and by the consciousness of the 'thinker' consisting of "thought" words (in relation to which it can be said that a person either "agree" or "disagrees", since this occurs at the level of thought), but descriptions of and by the "observing consciousness" consisting of "picture" (of which it can be said that a person either "sees" or does "not see" inasmuch as this occurs at the level of observation) words as conveyed by poetry, songs, parables, archetypal symbols in art and movies, in novels, in the Eastern esoteric descriptions of the mechanisms of consciousness, and in the Revelations (but not the theologies, which originate in thought) of the monotheistic religions.
Now, on the one hand, the consciousness of and by the 'thinker', which is described in "thought" words, and the experience of the 'unconscious', which is described in "picture" words, can, together, be referred to as the 'classical' consciousness'; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
But, on the other hand, the third dimension of consciousness--that is, the "observing consciousness" --which, because it exists prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker', *must* be considered as independent from both the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'.
This is the consciousness expressed and described in the writings and conversations of such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as in and by the Revelations of the monotheistic religions; a consciousness which is referred to in Genesis 1:27 as the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'; the implication of which being that that the 'classical' consciousness--that is, the consciousness of the 'thinker' and the 'unconscious'--is, in fact, a 'fallen' consciousness; a particular and *restricted* 'frame of reference' for the understanding of both the dimensions and the potentials of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a more complete understanding of all of the dimensions of human consciousness, it is necessary to step outside of and beyond the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions, the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions, and the knowledge conveyed in music, art, dance, and literature.
And, in this regard, the *new* 'hard problem' of consciousness is not in any way related to the 'hard problem' posed by Chalmers--which, from the perspective of the "observing consciousness", is nothing more than a re-wording of the metaphysical duality itself (which is the origin of its power to hypnotize 'thinkers'); but, rather, the *determined* unwillingness of the consciousness of the 'thinker' to acknowledge the existence of not only one, but two additional dimensions of consciousness; and, thus, the severe limitations and restricted frame of reference of a "science of consciousness" originating in self-reflection and thought in the first place.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/


Edit summary : Developing a new paradigm for consciousness
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, there is another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'.
And both of these dimensions of consciousness together--both the "ego consciousness" and the 'unconscious'--comprise what I refer to as the 'classical' consciousness; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
According to such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, however, there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which occurs prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker'; a consciousness which is referred to as the "observing consciousness" (that is, the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'--Genesis 1:27); the implication of which is that the consciousness of the 'thinker'/'unconscious' is, in fact, a particular and restricted 'frame of reference' for the understanding of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a genuine "science" of consciousness, it is necessary to step completely outside of the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a completely new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions and the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions.
Additional information at:
http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/


Edit summary : Change of paradigm in consciousness studies
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :
Statement : Current efforts regarding the development of a science of consciousness appear to be sharply restricted to a study of only the consciousness of the 'thinker', the origin of which can be traced to Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy. And this consciousness of the 'thinker' or the "self", or the 'mind" is approximately equivalent to what Freud would later call the "ego consciousness".
As indicated in the opening passages of the Second Meditation, however, there is another dimension of consciousness which is not the consciousness of the 'thinker'; a dimension of consciousness which is referred to by Western psychology as the 'unconscious'.
And both of these dimensions of consciousness together--both the "ego consciousness" and the 'unconscious'--comprise what I refer to as the 'classical' consciousness; that is, a consciousness which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection and is at the very foundation of Cartesian philosophy, the scientific method, and Western psychology and theology; all of which originate in thought.
According to such Eastern esotericists as J. Krishnamurti, as well as the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, however, there is, in fact, another dimension of consciousness which occurs prior to both the 'movement' of self-reflection and the thought of the 'thinker'; a consciousness which is referred to as the "observing consciousness" (that is, the consciousness Created 'by and in the image of God'--Genesis 1:27); the implication of which is that the consciousness of the 'thinker'/'unconscious' is, in fact, a particular and restricted 'frame of reference' for the understanding of human consciousness itself.
In other words, in order to develop a genuine "science" of consciousness, it is necessary to step completely outside of the boundaries of the fundamental metaphysical duality and the other metaphysical assumptions of the scientific method itself; and, in fact, to establish a completely new paradigm for the understanding of consciousness; a paradigm which includes both the Wisdom of the Eastern religions and the Knowledge concerning human consciousness Revealed in the monotheistic religions.

Edit summary : Change of paradigm in consciousness studies
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Michael
Go live Time :