Topic: Is Forking a Good Strategy

Camp: Agreement / Forking is Anti Social

Camp Statement History

Objected
Live
In Review
Old
Statement :

Forking is Anti-Social


Sunday school 101


Some people recall being taught about the importance of “choice” or “free will” in Sunday school. This type of choice is the go too choice for some people to reconcile the problem of evil, in the face of God.

The general idea was that if someone “choses” something other than what is being taught, they should go someplace else where they are “free to choose” something different.

The “other” choice is usually something of lesser value. It may be a lesser kingdom, or worse, something like hellfire and damnation. In other cases, the lesser choice results in one eventually simply dissolving away or ceasing to exist.


We have the following issues with this kind of thinking


  1. Self Contradictory. That which is not better (lesser degree of glory, hellfire, nonexistence…) is, by definition, that which one truly does not want. To say someone truly choses that which is not better is a contradiction. (See True and Mistaken Wants)
  2. Only The Perfect Choice. We believe God to have no other choice, but to make the ‘right’ choice, for that which is better. As long as there is anything, such as ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge, inability to make the right choice, some evil randomness, or anything else which prevents God from making the ‘right’ and best choice, that would result in God ceasing to be God. Only when God deterministically always makes the right choice, is he a truly free and perfect God, reliably able to get what he truly wants.
  3. Nothingness is the Worst of All Possibilities. Dissolving into nothing and ceasing to exist is even worse than the hellfire/damnation case. At least if you exist, burning in hell, you can work to fix things, like making air conditioning, enabling comfortable locations in that burning hell. Also, masochists enjoy pain. When someone is thrown away, to rot in the hell, that is the grave, this dissolving away into nothingness is the worst of all possible hells for us.
  4. Anyone can resolve all problems. No cause is ever lost if there be but one fool to fight for it. While it is better if someone can make better choices on their own, we have faith and hope that we also can work to help everyone to overcome and recognize all problems, enabling them to make the right choice.
  5. Accept Responsibility. We don’t push responsibilities onto others and instead focus on what we, ourselves, can do to help. Instead of waiting for God to come down to save us, instead of waiting for or expecting others to ‘chose’ something better, we take responsibility, ourselves, and jump in and get started doing all we can to push towards perfection for all, now.
  6. Humility. People who separate themselves from others are acting as if they know absolutely what is right, and that the others are absolutely wrong. While humble people are willing to walk in their shoes, be with them, and admit they, themselves, could be the ones that are wrong.
  7. Diversity is Good. Many decisions are often tradeoff decisions, with some pros and cons for all positions. If someone is making a different choice, rather than focusing on all the negative things of that different choice, we will work to find and focus on the pros of that choice. Instead of fearing different choices, we will have faith and hope that we can find a way to make it all possible for everyone. We view diversity as a good thing, the more diversity the better.
  8. Faith and Hope. We believe that all will be eventually possible. We will never give up at getting it all, for everyone. Instead of justifying evil, with things like particular definitions of ‘choice’, we have faith and hope that it all can be overcome. While we may not have time, in our current finite state, to fix everything, now, and we may die, before perfection is achieved. Like our ancestors, we will continue to make the world a petter place than what we were given and make the world a better place for our children.
  9. Excommunication is Hate. For us, telling someone to go someplace else, so we don’t have to be with them, is hatful and anti-social. If anyone is missing from a group, that is, by definition, lonely. Perfection can only be achieved with universal salvation for all, together. If someone is not yet perfect, and choosing anything that is less than the best, it is hell to be with them, in that mistaken state. Some are taught in Sunday School to fear that, and to always stay as far away as possible from anything like hell, or even worse, they seek to destroy it. We consider ‘loved ones’ to be worth it. We will descend into, and be with, and even serve any loved one, even doing what they ask of us, for as long as they THINK that is what they want us to do, for as long as is necessary, until they are also, finally able to see the problems with that and finally choose the better choice. We believe this is what Christ did when he turned the other cheek and let them make what they still thought was the best choice to crucify him. We believe the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, and that it will eventually be possible for all such sinners to make a full restitution, plus interest, for their mistakes, placing Christ, back on top, where all that were willing to sacrifice like that belong.

Edit summary : Add link to true and mistaken want definition.
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement :

Forking is Anti-Social


Sunday school 101


Some people recall being taught about the importance of “choice” or “free will” in Sunday school. This type of choice is the go too choice for some people to reconcile the problem of evil, in the face of God.

The general idea was that if someone “choses” something other than what is being taught, they should go someplace else where they are “free to choose” something different.

The “other” choice is usually something of lesser value. It may be a lesser kingdom, or worse, something like hellfire and damnation. In other cases, the lesser choice results in one eventually simply dissolving away or ceasing to exist.


We have the following issues with this kind of thinking


  1. Self Contradictory. That which is not better (lesser degree of glory, hellfire, nonexistence…) is, by definition, that which one truly does not want. To say someone truly choses that which is not better is a contradiction.
  2. Only The Perfect Choice. We believe God to have no other choice, but to make the ‘right’ choice, for that which is better. As long as there is anything, such as ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge, inability to make the right choice, some evil randomness, or anything else which prevents God from making the ‘right’ and best choice, that would result in God ceasing to be God. Only when God deterministically always makes the right choice, is he a truly free and perfect God, reliably able to get what he truly wants.
  3. Nothingness is the Worst of All Possibilities. Dissolving into nothing and ceasing to exist is even worse than the hellfire/damnation case. At least if you exist, burning in hell, you can work to fix things, like making air conditioning, enabling comfortable locations in that burning hell. Also, masochists enjoy pain. When someone is thrown away, to rot in the hell, that is the grave, this dissolving away into nothingness is the worst of all possible hells for us.
  4. Anyone can resolve all problems. No cause is ever lost if there be but one fool to fight for it. While it is better if someone can make better choices on their own, we have faith and hope that we also can work to help everyone to overcome and recognize all problems, enabling them to make the right choice.
  5. Accept Responsibility. We don’t push responsibilities onto others and instead focus on what we, ourselves, can do to help. Instead of waiting for God to come down to save us, instead of waiting for or expecting others to ‘chose’ something better, we take responsibility, ourselves, and jump in and get started doing all we can to push towards perfection for all, now.
  6. Humility. People who separate themselves from others are acting as if they know absolutely what is right, and that the others are absolutely wrong. While humble people are willing to walk in their shoes, be with them, and admit they, themselves, could be the ones that are wrong.
  7. Diversity is Good. Many decisions are often tradeoff decisions, with some pros and cons for all positions. If someone is making a different choice, rather than focusing on all the negative things of that different choice, we will work to find and focus on the pros of that choice. Instead of fearing different choices, we will have faith and hope that we can find a way to make it all possible for everyone. We view diversity as a good thing, the more diversity the better.
  8. Faith and Hope. We believe that all will be eventually possible. We will never give up at getting it all, for everyone. Instead of justifying evil, with things like particular definitions of ‘choice’, we have faith and hope that it all can be overcome. While we may not have time, in our current finite state, to fix everything, now, and we may die, before perfection is achieved. Like our ancestors, we will continue to make the world a petter place than what we were given and make the world a better place for our children.
  9. Excommunication is Hate. For us, telling someone to go someplace else, so we don’t have to be with them, is hatful and anti-social. If anyone is missing from a group, that is, by definition, lonely. Perfection can only be achieved with universal salvation for all, together. If someone is not yet perfect, and choosing anything that is less than the best, it is hell to be with them, in that mistaken state. Some are taught in Sunday School to fear that, and to always stay as far away as possible from anything like hell, or even worse, they seek to destroy it. We consider ‘loved ones’ to be worth it. We will descend into, and be with, and even serve any loved one, even doing what they ask of us, for as long as they THINK that is what they want us to do, for as long as is necessary, until they are also, finally able to see the problems with that and finally choose the better choice. We believe this is what Christ did when he turned the other cheek and let them make what they still thought was the best choice to crucify him. We believe the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, and that it will eventually be possible for all such sinners to make a full restitution, plus interest, for their mistakes, placing Christ, back on top, where all that were willing to sacrifice like that belong.

Edit summary : Change Want to "Truly Want" to clear up confusion.
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement :

Forking is Anti-Social


Sunday school 101


Some people recall being taught about the importance of “choice” or “free will” in Sunday school. This type of choice is the go too choice for some people to reconcile the problem of evil, in the face of God.

The general idea was that if someone “choses” something other than what is being taught, they should go someplace else where they are “free to choose” something different.

The “other” choice is usually something of lesser value. It may be a lesser kingdom, or worse, something like hellfire and damnation. In other cases, the lesser choice results in one eventually simply dissolving away or ceasing to exist.


We have the following issues with this kind of thinking


  1. Self Contradictory. That which is not better (lesser degree of glory, hellfire, nonexistence…) is, by definition, that which one does not want. To say someone ‘choses’ that which is not better is a contradiction.
  2. Only The Perfect Choice. We believe God to have no other choice, but to make the ‘right’ choice, for that which is better. As long as there is anything, such as ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge, inability to make the right choice, some evil randomness, or anything else which prevents God from making the ‘right’ and best choice, that would result in God ceasing to be God. Only when God deterministically always makes the right choice, is he a truly free and perfect God, reliably able to get what he truly wants.
  3. Nothingness is the Worst of All Possibilities. Dissolving into nothing and ceasing to exist is even worse than the hellfire/damnation case. At least if you exist, burning in hell, you can work to fix things, like making air conditioning, enabling comfortable locations in that burning hell. Also, masochists enjoy pain. When someone is thrown away, to rot in the hell, that is the grave, this dissolving away into nothingness is the worst of all possible hells for us.
  4. Anyone can resolve all problems. No cause is ever lost if there be but one fool to fight for it. While it is better if someone can make better choices on their own, we have faith and hope that we also can work to help everyone to overcome and recognize all problems, enabling them to make the right choice.
  5. Accept Responsibility. We don’t push responsibilities onto others and instead focus on what we, ourselves, can do to help. Instead of waiting for God to come down to save us, instead of waiting for or expecting others to ‘chose’ something better, we take responsibility, ourselves, and jump in and get started doing all we can to push towards perfection for all, now.
  6. Humility. People who separate themselves from others are acting as if they know absolutely what is right, and that the others are absolutely wrong. While humble people are willing to walk in their shoes, be with them, and admit they, themselves, could be the ones that are wrong.
  7. Diversity is Good. Many decisions are often tradeoff decisions, with some pros and cons for all positions. If someone is making a different choice, rather than focusing on all the negative things of that different choice, we will work to find and focus on the pros of that choice. Instead of fearing different choices, we will have faith and hope that we can find a way to make it all possible for everyone. We view diversity as a good thing, the more diversity the better.
  8. Faith and Hope. We believe that all will be eventually possible. We will never give up at getting it all, for everyone. Instead of justifying evil, with things like particular definitions of ‘choice’, we have faith and hope that it all can be overcome. While we may not have time, in our current finite state, to fix everything, now, and we may die, before perfection is achieved. Like our ancestors, we will continue to make the world a petter place than what we were given and make the world a better place for our children.
  9. Excommunication is Hate. For us, telling someone to go someplace else, so we don’t have to be with them, is hatful and anti-social. If anyone is missing from a group, that is, by definition, lonely. Perfection can only be achieved with universal salvation for all, together. If someone is not yet perfect, and choosing anything that is less than the best, it is hell to be with them, in that mistaken state. Some are taught in Sunday School to fear that, and to always stay as far away as possible from anything like hell, or even worse, they seek to destroy it. We consider ‘loved ones’ to be worth it. We will descend into, and be with, and even serve any loved one, even doing what they ask of us, for as long as they THINK that is what they want us to do, for as long as is necessary, until they are also, finally able to see the problems with that and finally choose the better choice. We believe this is what Christ did when he turned the other cheek and let them make what they still thought was the best choice to crucify him. We believe the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, and that it will eventually be possible for all such sinners to make a full restitution, plus interest, for their mistakes, placing Christ, back on top, where all that were willing to sacrifice like that belong.

Edit summary : Add 'Humility' item
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement :

Forking is Anti-Social


Sunday school 101


Some people recall being taught about the importance of “choice” or “free will” in Sunday school. This type of choice is the go too choice for some people to reconcile the problem of evil, in the face of God.

The general idea was that if someone “choses” something other than what is being taught, they should go someplace else where they are “free to choose” something different.

The “other” choice is usually something of lesser value. It may be a lesser kingdom, or worse, something like hellfire and damnation. In other cases, the lesser choice results in one eventually simply dissolving away or ceasing to exist.


We have the following issues with this kind of thinking


  1. Self Contradictory. That which is not better (lesser degree of glory, hellfire, nonexistence…) is, by definition, that which one does not want. To say someone ‘choses’ that which is not better is a contradiction.
  2. Only The Perfect Choice. We believe God to have no other choice, but to make the ‘right’ choice, for that which is better. As long as there is anything, such as ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge, inability to make the right choice, some evil randomness, or anything else which prevents God from making the ‘right’ and best choice, that would result in God ceasing to be God. Only when God deterministically always makes the right choice, is he a truly free and perfect God, reliably able to get what he truly wants.
  3. Nothingness is the Worst of All Possibilities. Dissolving into nothing and ceasing to exist is even worse than the hellfire/damnation case. At least if you exist, burning in hell, you can work to fix things, like making air conditioning, enabling comfortable locations in that burning hell. Also, masochists enjoy pain. When someone is thrown away, to rot in the hell, that is the grave, this dissolving away into nothingness is the worst of all possible hells for us.
  4. Anyone can resolve all problems. No cause is ever lost if there be but one fool to fight for it. While it is better if someone can make better choices on their own, we have faith and hope that we also can work to help everyone to overcome and recognize all problems, enabling them to make the right choice.
  5. Accept Responsibility. We don’t push responsibilities onto others and instead focus on what we, ourselves, can do to help. Instead of Waiting for God to come down to save us, instead of waiting for or expecting others to ‘chose’ something better, we take responsibility, ourselves, and jump in and get started doing all we can to push towards perfection for all, now.
  6. Diversity is Good. Many decisions are often tradeoff decisions, with some pros and cons for all positions. If someone is making a different choice, rather than focusing on all the negative things of that different choice, we will work to find and focus on the pros of that choice. Instead of fearing different choices, we will have faith and hope that we can find a way to make it all possible for everyone. We view diversity as a good thing, the more diversity the better.
  7. Faith and Hope. We believe that all will be eventually possible. We will never give up at getting it all, for everyone. Instead of justifying evil, with things like particular definitions of ‘choice’, we have faith and hope that it all can be overcome. While we may not have time, in our current finite state, to fix everything, now, and we may die, before perfection is achieved. Like our ancestors, we will continue to make the world a petter place than what we were given and make the world a better place for our children.
  8. Excommunication is Hate. For us, telling someone to go someplace else, so we don’t have to be with them, is hatful and anti-social. If anyone is missing from a group, that is, by definition, lonely. Perfection can only be achieved with universal salvation for all, together. If someone is not yet perfect, and choosing anything that is less than the best, it is hell to be with them, in that mistaken state. Some are taught in Sunday School to fear that, and to always stay as far away as possible from anything like hell, or even worse, they seek to destroy it. We consider ‘loved ones’ to be worth it. We will descend into, and be with, and even serve any loved one, even doing what they ask of us, for as long as they THINK that is what they want us to do, for as long as is necessary, until they are also, finally able to see the problems with that and finally choose the better choice. We believe this is what Christ did when he turned the other cheek and let them make what they still thought was the best choice to crucify him. We believe the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, and that it will eventually be possible for all such sinners to make a full restitution, plus interest, for their mistakes, placing Christ, back on top, where all that were willing to sacrifice like that belong.

Edit summary : Some minor tweeks
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement :

Forking is Anti-Social


Sunday school 101


Some people recall being taught about the importance of “choice” or “free will” in Sunday school. This type of choice is the go too choice for some people to reconcile the problem of evil, in the face of God.

The general idea was that if someone “choses” something other than what is being taught, they should go someplace else where they are “free to choose” something different.

The “other” choice is usually something of lesser value. It may be a lesser kingdom, or worse, something like hellfire and damnation. In other cases, the lesser choice results in one eventually simply dissolving away or ceasing to exist.


We have the following issues with this kind of thinking


  1. Self Contradictory. That which is not better (lesser degree of glory, hellfire, nonexistence…) is, by definition, that which one does not want. To say someone ‘choses’ that which is not better is a contradiction.
  2. Only the Perfect Choice. We believe God to have no other choice, but to make the ‘right’ choice, for that which is better. As long as there is anything, such as ignorance, inability, lack of knowledge, inability to make the right choice, some evil randomness, or anything else which prevents God from making the ‘right’ and best choice, that would result in God ceasing to be God. Only when God deterministically always makes the right choice, is he a truly free and perfect God, reliably able to get what he truly wants.
  3. Nothingness is the Worst of All Possibilities. Dissolving into nothing and ceasing to exist is even worse than the hellfire/damnation case. At least if you exist, burning in hell, you can work to fix things, like making air conditioning, enabling comfortable locations in that burning hell. Also, masochists enjoy pain. When someone is thrown away, to rot in the hell, that is the grave, this dissolving away into nothingness is the worst of all possible hells for us.
  4. Anyone can resolve all problems. No cause is ever lost if there be but one fool to fight for it. While it is better if someone can make better choices on their own, we have faith and hope that we also can work to help everyone to overcome and recognize all problems, enabling them to make the right choice.
  5. Accept Responsibility. We don’t push responsibilities onto others and instead focus on what we, ourselves, can do to help. Instead of Waiting for God to come down to save us, instead of waiting for or expecting others to ‘chose’ something better, we take responsibility, ourselves, and jump in and get started doing all we can to push towards perfection for all, now.
  6. Diversity is Good. Many decisions are often tradeoff decisions, with some pros and cons for all positions. If someone is making a different choice, rather than focusing on all the negative things of that different choice, we will work to find and focus on the pros of that choice. Instead of fearing different choices, we will have faith and hope that we can find a way to make it all possible fore everyone. We view diversity as a good thing, the more diversity the better.
  7. Faith and Hope. We believe that all will be eventually possible. We will never give up at getting it all, fore everyone. Instead of justifying evil, with things like particular definitions of ‘choice’, we have faith and hope that it all can be overcome. While we may not have time, in our current finite state, to fix everything, now, and we may die, before perfection is achieved. Like our ancestors, we will continue to make the world a petter place than what we were given and make the world a better place for our children.
  8. Excommunication is Hate. For us, telling someone to go someplace else, so we don’t have to be with them, is hatful and anti-social. If anyone is missing from a group, that is, by definition, lonely. Perfection can only be achieved with universal salvation for all, together. If someone is not yet perfect, and choosing anything that is less than the best, it is hell to be with them, in that mistaken state. Some are taught in Sunday School to fear that, and to always stay as far away as possible from anything like hell, or even worse, they seek to destroy it. We consider ‘loved ones’ to be worth it. We will descend into, and be with, and even serve any loved one, even doing what they ask of us, for as long as they THINK that is what they want us to do, for as long as is necessary, until they are also, finally able to see the problems with that and finally choose the better choice. We believe this is what Christ did when he turned the other cheek and let them make what they still thought was the best choice to crucify him. We believe the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, and that it will eventually be possible for all such sinners to make a full restitution, plus interest, for their mistakes, placing Christ, back on top, where all that were willing to sacrifice like that belong.

Edit summary : First Version
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :