Topic: Communicating Ineffable

Camp: Agreement

Camp Statement History

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Statement :

Best word to mean communicating that which is ineffable


The terms quale (pl: qualia), phenomenal qualities, and ineffable are already fairly well accepted and commonly understood, at least amongst expert theoreticians that discuss consciousness.
There is an additional idea emerging which has to do with the communication of such 'phenomenal qualities' or that which is normally ineffable. That which is effable, is that which can be communicated. There are theories that predict various week and strong physical communication techniques can be employed to make the phenomenal nature of qualia, or that which is ineffable, effable.
For example, If you can know the necessary and sufficient conditions, enabling one to reliably predict when one is or isn't experiencing a particular quale, like redness, it will be possible to scientifically observe when such is occurring in a brain. Upon which the conscious entity (artificial or otherwise) being communicated to could say: 'oh THAT is what your redness is like'.
Another stronger technique was first described by V. S. Ramachandran and William Hirstein in their seminal Three Laws of Qualia paper. They proposed that the phenomenal nature of qualia could be communicated if brains could be appropriately connected with a "cable of neurons".
If science proves this is possible, as predicted, you will then be able to 'ground' such abstract words as red or the taste of salt in a way that the person can know, phenomenally, what you are talking about. In other words, any of these techniques converts that which was normally ineffable, into something that is now effable. Achieving such would pierce the phenomenal Veil of Perception and solve the Problem of Other Minds. Some argue that discovering the relationship between phenomenal qualities we can experience, and the underlying neural correlates, could be the greatest discovery in physics, ever.
The purpose of this open survey topic is to survey for what everyone thinks is the best term to describe this new still theoretical possibility.


Edit summary : Some more minor changes.
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement :

Best word to mean communicating that which is ineffable


The terms quale (pl: qualia), phenomenal properties, and ineffable are already fairly well accepted and commonly understood, at least amongst expert theoreticians that discuss consciousness.
There is an additional idea emerging which has to do with the communication of such 'phenomenal properties' or that which is normally ineffable. That which is effable, is that which can be communicated. There are theories that predicts various week and strong physical communication techniques can be employed to make the phenomenal nature of qualia, or that which is ineffable, effable.
One such technique was first described by V. S. Ramachandran and William Hirstein in their seminal Three Laws of Qualia paper. They proposed that the phenomenal nature of qualia could be communicated (as in "oh THAT is what salt tastes like") if brains could be appropriately connected with a "cable of neurons".
Also, If you can know the necessary and sufficient conditions, enabling one to reliably predict when one is or isn't experiencing a particular quale, like redness, it is predicted that you can scientifically observe when such is occurring in another mind. Upon which the conscious entity (artificial or otherwise) being communicated to could say: 'oh THAT is what your redness is like'.
Using such a technique, the theory predicts, you can 'ground' such abstract words as red or the taste of salt in a way that the person can know, phenomenally, what you are talking about. In other words, any of these techniques converts that which was normally ineffable, into something that is now effable and solves the "Problem of Other Minds".
The purpose of this open survey topic is to survey for what everyone thinks is the best term for this.


Edit summary : Improve statement, and updated camp links.
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :
Statement : The terms quale (pl: qualia), phenomenal properties, and ineffable are already fairly well accepted and commonly understood, at least amongst experts and philosophers that discuss consciousness.
There is an additional idea emerging which has to do with the communication of such 'phenomenal properties' or that which is normally ineffable. That which is effable, is that which can be communicated. There is a theory that predicts appropriate physical communication techniques can be employed to make the phenomenal nature of qualia, or that which is ineffable, effable.
One such technique was first described by V. S. Ramachandran and William Hirstein in their seminal Three Laws of Qualia paper. They proposed that the phenomenal nature of qualia could be communicated (as in "oh THAT is what salt tastes like") if brains could be appropriately connected with a "cable of neurons".
Also, if you are able to reliably know what particular neural correlate always, and only always results in the same phenomenal experience, such as red, the theory predicts you can reproduce such in another mind when you throw a switch that appropriately sets up such a neural correlate in one's mind. Upon which the conscious entity being communicated to could say: 'oh THAT is what red is'.
Using such a technique, the theory predicts, you can 'ground' such abstract words as red or the taste of salt in a way that the person can know, phenomenally, what you are talking about. In other words, any of these techniques converts that which was normally ineffable, into something that is now effable.
The purpose of this topic is to survey what everyone thinks is the best word to describe or mean such.

Edit summary : spelling correction in "qualia" on the first line
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Hibbert
Go live Time :
Statement :
The terms quale (pl: qulia), phenomenal properties, and ineffable are already fairly well accepted and commonly understood, at least amongst experts and philosophers that discuss consciousness.
There is an additional idea emerging which has to do with the communication of such 'phenomenal properties' or that which is normally ineffable. That which is effable, is that which can be communicated. There is a theory that predicts appropriate physical communication techniques can be employed to make the phenomenal nature of qualia, or that which is ineffable, effable.
One such technique was first described by V. S. Ramachandran and William Hirstein in their seminal Three Laws of Qualia paper. They proposed that the phenomenal nature of qualia could be communicated (as in "oh THAT is what salt tastes like") if brains could be appropriately connected with a "cable of neurons".
Also, if you are able to reliably know what particular neural correlate always, and only always results in the same phenomenal experience, such as red, the theory predicts you can reproduce such in another mind when you throw a switch that appropriately sets up such a neural correlate in one's mind. Upon which the conscious entity being communicated to could say: 'oh THAT is what red is'.
Using such a technique, the theory predicts, you can 'ground' such abstract words as red or the taste of salt in a way that the person can know, phenomenally, what you are talking about. In other words, any of these techniques converts that which was normally ineffable, into something that is now effable.
The purpose of this topic is to survey what everyone thinks is the best word to describe or mean such.


Edit summary : First Version
Submitted on :
Submitter Nick Name : Brent_Allsop
Go live Time :