This goes quite deep, and I'm too busy with end-of-semester coursework to pursue it properly at the moment, but I'll make just a couple of quick points.
I (rjf) previously wrote: I don't think [consciousness is] a "natural kind": its ontological status is subjective and/or intersubjective, not objective.
slehar replied: If the ontological status of conscious experience is subjective, not objective, then so is ALL of science, because every single scrap of scientific knowledge, from the readings on a scientific meter, to data in published papers, comes to us THROUGH conscious experience.
rjf: In the absolute sense, because it merely seeks to describe reality rather than BEING that reality, yes, science is subjective. Of course, it's RELATIVELY objective, compared to other "ways of knowing".
slehar: Those of us who are committed to a *scientific* study of conscious experience must begin with the assumption that the object of our study, conscious experience, is objective real, and really exists as part of the objective world known to science.
rjf: To be conscious is, essentially, to be the SUBJECT of experience. It is a fundamental error to assume that what is essentially subjective can also be objective.
slehar: Those who would push experience into a subjective realm that is somehow *beyond* objective reality, or who believe that consciousness can never in principle be explained in scientific terms, are not among those who are committed to a *scientific* examination of conscious experience. Thats a WHOLE DIFFERENT camp.
rjf: That's what I was thinking when I put up the previous objection, but, as I said before, I now think it's reasonable to say that the understanding of consciousness can be APPROACHED by science. But ultimately, using any third-person methodology, you will find nothing but mechanical interaction. (Using "mechanical" in the broad sense, obviously.)
This really is going quite deep, and I think I have to say that I won't be able to take any further part in this discussion, at least for a week or so. Meanwhile, I just put my new research proposal up on the web, if anyone is interested. It's on what meditation can tell us about consciousness. http://www.robinfaichney.org/