Hi TimX, Thanks for all you contributions, and these great comments. This "hard problem" topic is kind of the predecessor to the [http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88 "Theories of Consciousness"] topic. Most people have just changed their camps to reference the newer versions in the other camp where all the work is done these days, or just no longer contributing here. I think the camp over there, most similar to this older "prior to brain" camp, is the [http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/48 "Substance Dualism"] or [http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/35 "Higher Demensional"] theories. In other words, this prior stuff is some kind of different 'substance', in a higher, possibly spiritual dimension. Also, I don't see any responses to what you think is a sticking point. So, remember, the canonizer way is, if nobody responds or objects, it's up to you to feel free to fix any sticking points and improve any camp (usually a crude draft to get things started) to make it the best you think it can be, either here or over there. Upwards, Brent Allsop

The statement for this camp seems credible to me, but there's one point that perhaps I do not understand: Quote: [As has] been proved experimentally by the Aspect twin particle effect, where once entangled atomic particles (photons) remain as if one even while they are separated by great distances. A computer will not be connected to this source in a meaningful way. That is why I think a computer will never be "conscious." A quantum computer is a device that does various things with particles in superposition. Calling it a "computer" might be a bit of a stretch, but the actual device called a Quantum Computer is almost certainly hooked up to and managed by a regular computer. Where does the Quantum Computer start and where does it end? Is the electrical power plant, located miles away, part of the Quantum Computer? If we say that "a computer will never be conscious," what are we saying, exactly? Do we mean that a microprocessor chip can never be conscious? What if that chip included a small region lowered to near absolute zero, where superposition could happen — a QC on the chip? Could it be a bit conscious then? I'm open to supporting this camp but that statement about computers being incapable of consciousness is a sticking point.