Curt Welch, Thank you so much for your wonderful contribution to the Canonizer! I'm sure there are many people that have a similar POV, and I look forward to more of them finding out about your effort and then supporting this position statement. Might I ask how you heard about the Canonizer and this topic and came to be interested in helping out? This is my first test of sending e-mail through the Canonizer Camp Forum system. I used the new link on the topic page to send this e-mail to all supporters of a "camp". Since I sent this from the agreement statement page, it is going to all 4 supporters of all camps in this topic. The system to record such messages in a DB, and then presenting them as a history in a forum isn't quite complete. But I intend on adding this, along with any other e-mails sent through this system, into the DB for forum history purposes when it is complete. Curt, in your statement you said: <<<< The hard problem comes from the foundational belief that conscious is a thing which exists in humans, but which is somehow different from the human body. It's this assumption of separation or difference which creates the hard problem.>>>> While I'm sure that this is true for, perhaps the large majority of people that cherish the "hard problem" this is certainly not true for my beliefs, and I bet this is also not true for the other two supporters of the competing camp structure to yours. (right M@KB, and Stathis?) So I propose we make a "supper camp" something like the following that contains this POV in which both of our camps are agreed: Name: Depends on Brain. Title: Consciousness depends on the brain, and dies with it. Many people believe we have some kind of "spirit" or "soul" that is some how above, in a different spiritual dimension, or whatever from our physical body. Many of these people believe this spirit will arise, or be freed, or whatever from the physical body when it dies. We do not believe anything like this is true. We believe that everything we consciously experience is part of the physical brain; that when we die, the conscious properties that existed cease to exist, or at best, like the rest of the matter of our body, disassociates as it rots into the rest of the natural entropy of the universe. Currently there are two POV branches under the Agreement Statement. The "Phenomenal Consciousness" camp with 2 sub camps and 3 supporters, and the new "Physicalism" camp now supported by Curt. My proposal is to create the above "supper" camp, and then move both of these branches under that supper camp. Of course, if I moved the Physicalism statement under such a camp, such a change would be in review for 1 week until the change went live. During this review phase any supporters of the camp could object, and thereby prevent such a change from going live. So, my question is, if I attempted such a change, would any of you object? (I'd like to know now, so I don't waste the effort attempting such.) If I don't hear any objections, I'll go ahead and make these proposed changes. If there are any objections, I look forward to learning about why and negotiating something that is better for all. How long do you think it will be before someone that believes in a dualistic "spirit" is brave enough to create and support a competing camp to such a supper camp? Thanks again, Brent Allsop